From Harbor Commissioner To Global Regulator: Lessons From Mario Cordero, CEO, Port of Long Beach

🚢 A special By Land and By Sea Podcast episode — and a bittersweet moment in maritime leadership

This week, I had the privilege of sitting down with MARIO CORDERO, who will be retiring this month after leading the Port of Long Beach through some of the most consequential years in supply chain history.

And just this week, the Port announced that Dr. Noel Hacegaba will step in as the next CEO — marking the end of one chapter and the beginning of another for one of America’s most important gateways.

This interview is unique because it wasn’t just a formal conversation — it was a personal one.

Mario and I worked together more than 10 years ago at the Federal Maritime Commission, and it is genuinely bittersweet to see him step away from this role. Not because he hasn’t earned a well-deserved breather — he has — but because this moment represents the closing of a major arc in his long, impactful career.

Mario has never been someone who “just sits around,” and I have no doubt he will continue contributing to the industry in new and meaningful ways. After a bit of travel, as he told me with a smile.

We talked about his earliest days, his years at the FMC, his role shaping the 2015 congestion report, global regulatory conversations, and what it was really like to lead Long Beach through the surge years.

It was thoughtful, candid, and truly special.

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Check out our Just-in-Time Learning™ micro-course:

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https://www.themaritimeprofessor.com/challenge-page/maritime-fmc-marad?programId=97f199ca-340b-4517-b03b-90d93a3aafcf

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Chapters

• 0:00 Setting The Stage At Long Beach
• 1:16 Introducing Mario Cordero
• 3:15 Early Life And Path To Law
• 7:58 Harbor Commission Lessons And Green Policy
• 14:08 From Port To FMC: Mission And Reach
• 20:43 Contracts, BCOs, And Carrier Alliances
• 27:21 Guardrails, Equanimity, And Listening
• 33:02 The Global Regulatory Summit Concept
• 39:16 FMC Visibility, Budgets, And Congress
• 47:06 Why Congestion Research Mattered
• 54:03 24/7 Mindset And Terminal Hours
• 1:00:31 Becoming FMC Chair: Inside Story

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Ready to go.

SPEAKER_01: 0:09

You're listening to by land and by sea, powered by is a maritime professor. Some conversations feel like history being recorded in real time. And today's episode is one of those. This week we're talking with someone whose leadership has attached to nearly every corner of the modern supply chain. And as the port of Long Beach moves into a new chapter, this conversation becomes even more meaningful. Hi, welcome back to My Land and Vicy, an attorney breaking down the weekend supply chain, presented by the Maritime Professor. Me, I'm Lauren Vegan, the founder of the Maritime Professor, former FMC International Affairs Attorney and the founder of Support Strategies. My land and Vic Z is your go-to resource for navigating the regulatory side of global ocean shipping. And me, I'm your favorite maritime attorney. As always, this podcast is for educational purposes only and should not be considered legal advice. There is no attorney client privilege created by this video or there's a podcast. You need an attorney to contact an attorney. So let's get into it because as you know, ocean shipping moves the world. Well, today's episode is a special one. I had the chance to sit down for a personal thoughtful conversation with Mario Cordero, who's the EO of the Board of Long Beach, former chairman of the Federal Maritime Commission, and someone I had the privilege of working with more than a decade ago at the FMC. And now this interview was actually recorded just before some very new, very big news broke. Dr. Noel Hasagaba has been announced as the next CEO of the Board of Long Beach. And so you'll hear this conversation with Mario at the moment. He was preparing for retirement at the end of this month, but before the announcement of his assessor, but became public. Now that timing actually makes this conversation perhaps even more professional, because what you're about to hear is Mario reflecting openly, humbly, and candidly on a career that's advanced local governance, federal regulatory leadership, global collaboration, and the operational heart of one of the busiest boards in the nation. During this conversation, we talked about how he first found his way into maritime, his years on the Long Beach Harbor Commission beginning in 2003, his FMC appointment in 2011, and his chairmanship beginning shortly after that in 2013. The 2015 congestion report, I often talk about it, Sam Ricagliano talks about it, we talk about it together when we talk on each other's shows, and how that report became unexpectedly prophetic. Like a prophecy, I should say prophetic B R O P H E T I Z. The US EU-China regulatory dialogues and leading Long Beach those apply chains and our tiers. And also a little bit about what he hopes the next generation of maritime leaders will carry forward. This conversation felt personal for me, not just as a maritime attorney, but as someone who worked under Mario's leadership and has long admired his approach. I'm grateful he shared this time with me, and I'm grateful to share it with you now. So with that, let's get into it. Here's my conversation with Mario Cordero. Today I'm joined by Mario Cordero, a Los Angeles native and the first in his family to attend college. He earned his bachelor's degree in political science from California State University, Long Beach, and his law degree from Santa Clara University School of Law. His father encouraged him to pursue engineering, but Mario followed his path to law, a decision that would ultimately lead into public service roles that really helped shape some modern U.S. maritime policy. He served on the Long Beach Board of Harbor Commissioners beginning in 2003, a role that grounded him deeply in port community needs and early environmental leadership. In 2011, he was appointed to the Federal Maritime Commission. That's where I know him from. And by 2013, he became its chairman, did a fantastic job, guiding the agency through industry consolidation, alliance restructuring, early congestion challenges, and the development of a 2015 congestion report that Sam Rogliano and I often referenced, but didn't get a lot of fanfare at the time. That would become a true touchstone years later. In 2017, he returned home to serve as executive director of the port of Long Beach, where he led the port or continues to lead the port through unprecedented cargo surges and global pandemic and ambitious environmental and modernization. And just recently he announced his retirement from that role at the end of the year, marking the close of a remarkable chapter in port leadership. Mario, thank you so much. I'm really grateful to have you here today. Thank you for joining me.

SPEAKER_00: 4:36

Thank you, Lord, and thank you so much for this kind invitation.

SPEAKER_01: 4:39

It's so wonderful to have you on the show. And really to get a chance to sit down and just chat through the years of your fantastic experience and your wonderful leadership. You know, before we jump into the incredible accolades that you have, you really do. I'd love to hear a little bit more about how you started. And actually, despite all the years now that I've known you, I don't think I've ever actually found out how you found yourself in maritime. I believe it was your father, like I said, who encouraged you to go into engineering. Is that right? But you chose law school. Talk to me a little bit more about those early years. And then as your career developed, how did you find yourself in the maritime world? You taught for years, but I don't think it was maritime. How did it come onto your radar?

SPEAKER_00: 5:18

Well, Lauren, as you stated, uh when I was in high school, I was a math major. Uh, my father had encouraged me to go into engineering. My father was a laborer at a small aircraft company here in Los Angeles. And hence the only professionals he ever ran into were engineers. So he wanted to make sure his sons would go to work with a, as he would say, a shirt and tie so they could work with their brain and not with their hands. And you know, by the but what I meant when, you know, my father, you know, he did intense labor and then later on, of course, became a superintendent or informan. But you know, he wanted his kids to be educated in a profession. As a after I graduated from Gardena High, where I was uh going to attend Cal State Long Beach University in the engineering program, that summer I changed my law my my major to pre-law political science. So by occupation, I've been an attorney for all these years. And to your second part of the question, in 2003, a local legislator approached me to ask whether I was had an interest in being appointed to the Harbor Commission, a very prestigious group, particularly in those days where it was like the who's who got appointed, so to speak. And so I submitted my application, and the then mayor, Beverly O'Neill, appointed me to the Harbor Commission. And at that point, I became immersed with this maritime curriculum endeavor study. And I think it was a fabulous experience for me as a commissioner because I became very interested in the whole issue of international trade, goods movement, maritime port authorities, and you name it. So that's how I started.

SPEAKER_01: 7:03

Oh, that's so interesting. You know, and that's so I I feel like I'm learning more about you now. That that saying that you were a math major for a while, I feel like that kind of matches up to me and and how I've seen you think and how I've seen you approach problems is you do it in a systemic way and and kind of in a methodical way. But then also you're you're very into poetry, if I recall, right? You used to go to poets and pirates, I think, in in DC. But it I that it just kind of pairing up in my head that you you approach things methodically, but then you also have this finesse to to your decision making. And I it like I said, this is starting to make a little bit more sense to me. Well, that's great. So so then you were with the Harbor Commission. You know, when once you were in that seat, I mean, that was your really your first chapter in maritime. What did it teach you? Obviously, it was drinking from a fire hose, but what did it teach you about ports, people, and kind of the responsibility of serving that gateway that that really kind of is the lifeblood for not only the region but the country?

SPEAKER_00: 8:00

Well, it's ironic that it that my wife and I have lived in Long Beach for many years. She's born and raised in Long Beach. And in up until the time I got appointed in 2003 to the Harbor Commission, I knew nothing about the port of Long Beach. I had never visited the Port of Long Beach, to be honest with you. So I think uh once I got appointed, not only did I really uh became a student of the maritime ministry, but also what I believe port authorities needed to do in this particular case as a public port, you know, we needed to really uh involve ourselves with the issues of the local community, more particularly, more specifically, the environmental question. And I remember interviewing by the local newspaper when I got appointed. And the the the first question I was asked is by this rather conservative publication at the time, Long Beach Press Telegram. They asked me as a lawyer a very intriguing question. And they asked, Do you have any maritime law experience? And I answered the question and I said, Well, name me the last commissioner that did. And of course, they didn't know the answer. There there really hadn't been a attorney from the maritime field other than in the early 70s, there was one. But all the commissioners that have served on the Long Beach uh Board of Harbor Commissioners going back to the inception of 1914, the birth of the Port of Long Beach 2011, there had never been a maritime attorney other than one person in the early 70s. And then the second question was what do you what's your agenda? And I said, I think for the port, we need to make sure that the benefits of the port, the economic engine, have to be shared with the many as opposed to the few. And what I meant by that was we needed to get engaged in the community, you know, start talking about environmental sustainability development. How do we give back to the community? And that's the story. And I think that's eventually became the Greenport policy that was inaugurated or formally announced in January of 2005, and then the rest is history about what we've been able to do as a port of Long Beach. That is grow commercially and also reduce substantially the harmful emissions from port operations.

SPEAKER_01: 10:26

Yeah, you know, and and it's it was so important. I think I've seen those tenants actually follow through, especially during your time at the FMC. You were very involved in, well, let's talk more about environment and how that can be part of the larger conversation for this global ocean shipping world. But then also community, right? As you were partnering with different entities that we had stakeholders, whether it was you were visiting ports or you were actually visiting counterparts for various countries, I remember that that you like to immerse yourself in the community that you were a part of, right? Oftentimes kind of walking instead of taking an Uber. So that way you could get a little bit more of a sense of where you were, which I I really appreciated because often you kind of fly in, fly out right of these cities. And you really always had this sense of, you know, I want to know the world a little bit more. I want to know where I am. And so, you know, often as the international affairs attorney, I prepped you for some of those international trips. And so I would make walking maps as well, I remember, when you were out there just to make sure that, you know, you could you could have that option as well. So I that's that's so important and and so telling. I uh it it's like I said, it's all kind of matching up here. So my next question was kind of along those same lines, when you moved from the Harbor Commission to the Federal Maritime Commission, what were some of those perspectives that you carried with you? I mean, that was kind of a unique thing. We often had commissioners that were coming with some maritime experience, but it really wasn't kind of one of the core tenets of being a commissioner. I feel nowadays we are seeing more maritime-focused or maritime-based experience coming into the commission. And I shouldn't say that there wasn't, because there certainly was uh, you know, Elaine Chow, Paul Anderson, every there were there was quite a bit of supply chain experience. But you came with this port experience and and port experience from a harbor commission perspective. What did you quickly learn translated well? What were some of those tenants that helped you? But then what did you quickly learn wasn't so translatable between local and federal?

SPEAKER_00: 12:24

Well, the the time I spent in Washington was very educational to me. And Lauren, I I will say that uh like the situation at the Portal Long Beach when I was a commissioner and currently as the CEO, the FMC, I was always surrounded by great staff, wonderful staff, you included, who had that expertise and uh and and uh made me look good, I will say that. So I think the Washington experience really pointed to one one area that I was really impressed, and that is the great history of the Federal Maritime Commission. However, not very many people knew or were aware of the FMC. So, and the the mission of the FMC, of course, is to foster fair and efficient uh movement of international cargo in our domestic arena here. And so I then became a student of how that domestic goods movement moves and what the interests are, not only to a port authority, but to all the stakeholders, and more importantly, the economic engine for the nation of goods movement. So as you may recall, then of course there were many issues that uh I learned about there at the FMC that really got more into this specific stakeholders, the carriers, the freight porters, the third-party vendors. And so I think again, that experience was valuable for me in terms of adding on to my experience as a commissioner at the Port of Long Beach in the preceding eight years.

SPEAKER_01: 14:01

You know, one thing too, uh you just mentioned it, but that was one thing that really stuck out when you were the FMC chairman was you always repeated the mission. You know, I I think even the employees coming into the FMC were learning about the FMC as they were doing employee onboarding and training, right? It wasn't it it certainly pre-COVID wasn't an agency that you had anybody really had much experience with. And if you did know about it, you were probably an NVOCC, right? Or some sort of freight forwarder. But but if you were just kind of general maritime, you you really didn't know much. And even supply chain. I remember we used to get calls from some of these larger VCOs and shippers, and we how did you even find us? How did you know this was an agency? But but that was one thing that you always did was whenever you did a presentation or a remarks, you always said the mission over and over again. Enough that now I can even repeat it in my sleep. I say it often, right? That for the benefit of the US importer, exporter, and consumer was kind of that key tenant of this is what we're doing, this is why we're doing it, this is who we're doing it for, and this is kind of what we have to keep in mind as we build these, as we we research and build, right? I mean, the the FMC is equal parts lawyers and economists, they often say, right? But it's so important to say that we had so many and still continue to have so many economists there that it is a competition authority. It is kind of an economic engine monitor as much as it is a regulatory arm. So you saw the industry from this 30,000 feet at the FMC. Now, what's something that you understood at that level about carriers, ports, or even the supply chain generally that people on the outside rarely appreciate, both at the FMC but also for the industry?

SPEAKER_00: 15:43

Well, one of the things that come to mind is really understanding the whole structure of the contract issue between the carriers, the shippers, and and those relationships and how that translates to what ports they they call on. So at the end of the day, I think that relationship between the beneficial cargo owner and the carriers is a obviously a business relationship, but it's one that uh you understand the concern of both parties, that is the financial ledger of what that means to both parties and the contractual arrangement. And that's the key relationship that ultimately then lends itself to this container movement in the USA. So for a port authority, quite frankly, they they have really no role in terms of how you are a player in that decision, uh, other than, of course, as a port, all you can do is provide the best service and the best infrastructure so that these decision makers then decide at what port they're gonna call or terminal for that matter. So it was very interesting that I had the the benefit of meeting, as you are aware, Lauren, all the top CEOs that came to DC to meet with me, whether from the carry industry or the BCO industry. And of course, this was also during the alliance uh period in which we were we the F and C were going to ascertain these applications or entertain a discussion on the uh carrier applications for the alliance structure that commenced in 2013. The first of one, which was you may recall the P3 Alliance. And then I was there from that one into the last one that was filed in late 2016 with the Ocean Alliance. Or was it yeah, the Ocean Alliance was I think with the last one. But in that regard, it was a valuable experience to be a chairman at that point because you really were able to understand the perspectives from the top levels of those stakeholders.

SPEAKER_01: 18:04

You were there from such an interesting time period, and and you and I actually aligned. I didn't realize that we were so precisely aligned. I think you had gotten there just before me, because I got there just early 2012, and I think you got there 2011, and then we both left in in 2017. And and it was such a wild time, like like you're saying, that to be at the FMC, to be at this independent regulatory agency that not many knew what they did, but on the other hand, was responsible for all of these questions. And they were, you know, the the carriers were moving around, and and we had just gone through the hands in bankruptcy was around that time too. So that was part of it. We had the ocean carriers were were starting to make these vessel sharing agreements, right? These ocean alliances, these larger alliances. And so, you know, was there competition considerations? Was there was this monopolistic or was this just operational in a vessel sharing capacity? I mean, some of those decisions were were the decisions that you had to lead, you know, this five-person or at I think actually we you were four people at one point of agency through. So, you know, that was it was such a a great time for leadership to really be shown. When you were put into those positions, what were some of those guardrails or principles that helped you stay grounded in those conversations to keep the commission focused? You know, I know that you always had that mission handy, right? When you, whenever you were talking, you made sure to mention the mission. Was that one of the guardrails? Were there other principles that you included?

SPEAKER_00: 19:37

Yeah, I think you mentioned one of them. In other words, keep focused on what our mission was and our objectives. I think uh one that's helped me all along in my career, including in my current position, is the the concept of uh equanimity. In other words, you have to stay in calm and collective. And I've always I've always said that uh the greater tests of that ability. Is when you're in Washington, D.C. Because as you know, politics enters into the agencies every day there in Washington. And at the commission level, as you know, uh I we have uh fair representation from both parties. And sometimes we differ with regard to our interpretation of whether it's section 6G or other sections of the uh of the of the regulations. But I think to your question, one of the things that I learned is you have to listen and you have to be pragmatic and respect the views of your opposition. And I remember two things in in that in that scenario. One was if you if you recall the congestion report that we issued in 2015, I I decided that we, the FNC, we needed to travel across the country to hold hearings on the issue of congestion. And I had two colleagues on the commission who didn't think that was what we should be doing. In fact, I had people at the staff level because we had never done that before. And you know, my my mindset has been just because you've never done it before doesn't mean you can't do it. And there was one commissioner that was pretty pretty verbal on his opinion of of that of that uh step that we were going to take and that we did take. And but I have to say that after we did that, that one commissioner came to me after all said and done and said, you know what, that was one of the best things we ever did as the F and C. The second was the alliance during the alliance discussions, if you remember, I decided that we needed to have uh international conversation with our two regulatory organizations in in in the global arena. That is the EU and the Chinese Transport Administry. So we invited both of the uh representatives from both those regulatory agencies to Washington in my office. And we had the first global regulatory summit that we've ever had. And then we during the following years it it continued. The EU hosted one, and then one was hosted in China. So I think those two areas are ones that, again, I I'm very proud to say that I think it took outside the box thinking at the F and C. And now as we look back, obviously they were very apropos. We're still studying these issues of the alliance structure. We're still studying issues of congestion and bottlenecks. Now, fortunately on the West Coast, we have moved historic volumes here at the San Pedro Bay complex in the last two years without bottlenecks and congestions. But I think again, a lot of my thinking goes back to my six years in Washington. And last, I'll say this, including the fact of how important the San Pedro Bay complex is to this global movement of containers, and how important it is for these two port authorities, for Lomington for Los Angeles, to be as much as possible lockstep in terms of what we need to do to remain a very competitive gateway and a gateway of choice in this global movement of containerized cargo.

SPEAKER_01: 23:29

Yeah, I'm so glad that you brought up the global regulatory summit. That was one thing that I wanted to mention too, because it really was and continues to be such a novel idea that was hiding in plain sight, right? It was one of those things like, what do you mean? That the European Director General for Competition and the China Ministry of Transport, there isn't an open dialogue or there isn't an opportunity for this conversation. There were concerns, I remember at the time of, well, well, how much can you talk to each other? You can't decide this as a group, but there was no real reason why you couldn't either. So one of the things that I remember you said at the time of creating this idea of this global regulatory summit was, why don't we just kind of talk about things we're we're concerned about on general sense, right? Of course, P3 was the issue of the day, but instead it turned into, well, these are probably going to keep coming. What are some things that we are going to be concerned about? Because at the time, and certainly still continues today, if any one of those agencies had said no, the idea was gone, right? I mean, for the most part, right? If if we had any sort of denial of this alliance structure, if you were one of the major players, which those were the top three, and a wonderful insight to make sure that you included the largest regulators in in the space, it would have kind of killed the idea right then and there. And I know that we get a lot of there's there's a lot of stakeholder and kind of public perception of what alliances are and what they aren't. And as you know, one thing that they aren't is they aren't monopolies. They do still compete with each other inside the alliances. They really are this vessel sharing. And I often kind of associate it with, you know, you could take Southwest Air and you could fly from Boston to Denver, but you have to stop over in Kansas City. You don't want to go to Kansas City, but that's what the route is, right? Versus Delta, same flight, Boston to Denver. You go directly there and you're on Eagle Air. You book through Delta, that was your platform, that's where your points are, but you go directly to Denver because they have an aircraft sharing agreement. It's an alliance. It's it's so that's something that I feel like stakeholders and shippers don't often understand is you get better routing options, you get better, hopefully, rates, but really it comes down to better efficiency of both of the equipment and the vessels. And it really comes down to the vessels and those routes. That having everybody talk together was a great thing because it was a global problem.

SPEAKER_00: 25:56

Oh, you said it very well, Lauren, because again, going back to what's the mission of the FMC, and I think we commenced a a strong, well, first of all, we furthered a strong argument that the the FMC needed to be very proactive on these issues because that's why it was created in the first place during the Kennedy administration back in 1961. An agency to focus on the impact of international uh regulation, international movement of cargo, and how that impacts the domestic arena again here in the United States. So I think again, now here we are in eight in year 2025, and it's so apropos now in the last couple of years, given the uh discussions that we're still having about whether it's global supply chain disruption or cost issues, geopolitical discussions. I think again it's it's it's it's a it's a very good setting for the FMC to engage, particularly with members on the hill. I think that's the other aspect that uh Lauren that I think we really elevated when I was at the FMC, our dialogue on the hill. And and because again, even congressional members sometimes weren't aware of the mission of the FMC.

SPEAKER_01: 27:11

And they still do a pretty good job, but they're still learning to be done, right? I mean, everybody's kind of learning as they go along. Often one of the biggest confusions is, as you know, right, is Mayrad versus FMC, that they are two separate agencies, right? That they are that the FMC is an independent regulatory agency, whereas Mayrad is uh, you know, under Department of Transportation. And and I really think that the separation of FMC from Mayrad and FMC used to be together as the Federal Maritime Board, but then it was separated. And I see it as, well, the FMC is really kind of the the referee, right? So they they're the ones who are calling, you know, strikes and balls and and right, we'll we'll stick with baseball. I see you've got the Dodgers right there, always having the Dodgers Cup. And then but the but Mayrad is really kind of the the promotional piece, right? It's it's maybe even the the the owners or the, you know, they're they're they're the ones that are putting money and injecting money, and they're they're also making sure that the team does well. They're the US flag promotional arm, whereas the FMC really is that independent regulator, regulatory, you know, referee, if you will. So I I think that that was a really, really good thing that you did. You really, I think you were hiring people even within the agency that we didn't have those legislative arms or or we didn't have as built out of just staffers working on that communication directly to the hill. Another thing that you did that really will never find its way into any sort of news media because it was more operational. We got new computers. When you showed up, I think we still had 1990s, right? I don't think we had DOS, but we certainly had very old, archaic. I think we still had, you know, the soft sloppy drive ability. And you gave us new computers for the entire agency that that really sped things up, right? We still have some platforms that even now are a little bit older in the FMC system. But but your your vision was not just that of large global regulatory, but how can you assist the FMC and the staff? And and I can tell you, thank you. We love the new computers. Uh, when I was working there, that was a fantastic upgrade.

SPEAKER_00: 29:18

Well, Laura, again, I was surrounded by very good staff. Uh, you may uh recall that uh I I lobbied. Well, first of all, I want to thank Congress for that because I lobbied to the congressional leaders that we needed to uh fund the FNC at an elevated level, including our infrastructure, whether it's IT and other aspects of it. So fortunately, we were able to get some support from some congressional committees regarding the uplifting of the Federal Maritime Commission, and the staff did a great job for setting the tone and the roadmap for that. And I think I will all I will say that uh as subsequent to my departure, the FMC has continued on a very good track. I mean, Chairman McFay did a great job during the uh I mean who would have thought that the uh ocean shipping author would have been amended would be amended? And of course it was a couple years ago, not only to include additional resources for the FMC, but additional funding. So Chairman McFay did a great job and and his leadership. But again, but for the COVID-19, well, first of all, the COVID-19 was certainly a a tragedy of the pandemic of the century, but it did elevate the importance of the supply chain, given the supply chain disruption not only in the global but in the domestic areas here. It did elevate the importance of that global supply chain to Congress. So I think going forward, I think it's fair to say that I think uh many of our congressional members really do see the importance not only of the supply chain investment in the supply chain, but in our portal stories throughout the United States.

SPEAKER_01: 30:56

Yeah, I think that's right. And you know, that that's one of the things that I think that in a good way the FMC always struggles with is they really don't have a lot of funding. So, you know, when when whenever there are cutbacks of 10% cuts or 20% cuts across the board, the FMC runs very lean. And I think when you were there, it was 98% salaries on the on the overall. And and it still probably is in the 90s, where, you know, it's a 30-ish million dollar budget. I mean, that's a line item. That's less than a project for a lot of other places. You know, ports are receiving grants larger than the entire budget of the FMC. And I'm not saying that we need to overinflate it with a giant salary, but I think that there, as these percentage cuts kind of come down, recognize that there are some agencies that already run very lean for on a very purposeful way that that was designed that way, but that still needs some support. And and as the FMC is getting more authorities, both through ASRA 2022, but also there's some new things in the FMC reauthorization, which will expand the advisory committees that the FMC is offering, which is wonderful for engagement with the stakeholders to this agency. I think that the budget, you know, for anybody in Congress listening, the budget certainly needs to be expanded to match those authorities because as it was when we were there, it's about 100 to 115, 120 people, employees that includes administrative staff support. It's not just all 120 economists and lawyers. And so having a maybe 40,000 40 million dollar budget and a maybe 130, 150 person target in the next few years, it's still pretty low.

SPEAKER_00: 32:42

So we'll see. I think going forward, I think again, that advocacy will continue.

SPEAKER_01: 32:49

Well, and I think you did a I guess all that to say you did a fantastic job setting the stage for that because I think that it really needed that attention and that expanded education. So thinking back, there was a lot of international engagement that you did, which rightfully so. The FMC doesn't operate in a vacuum, supply chain doesn't operate in a vacuum. Is there anything from those conversations that that you really took away that that really kind of expanded your horizons on you you obviously were probably already starting to have these international conversations, but to see the global regulatory summit and then these maritime bilateral, multilateral, you were often traveling with the maritime administrator, sometimes Department of State representatives, consulate generals, all of that. Uh, was there anything from those experiences that really kind of opened your mind? Because in in our progression here today, our conversations, you've you've been the harbor commissioner, then a commissioner at the FMC, and then now in this chairman role, you were directing some of those conversations. Talk to me a little bit about that experience.

SPEAKER_00: 33:46

Well, I think again, it it really places a focus that decision making that's that that that we have at the regulatory agency like the FMC or even a port authority impacts not just your uh immediate uh circle of as an agency or as a port, but it impacts uh numerous stakeholders in the supply chain. And again, uh a discussion in terms of the uh decisions that uh involve the cost of moving goods. Well, those are hard decisions that you have to address, you know, because again, at the end of the day, uh you know uh these cost impact issues uh affect a number of stakeholders, and then translates to ultimately what the consumer pays at the end of the day with regard to the uh those goods that they they purchase. So I think again, understanding the the viewpoints of whether it's a freight floater, a shipper, and the stakeholders, the truckers, the railroads, and the unions is so important because again, I think uh from my perspective, going back to my my answer in 2003 to the publisher of the Long Beach Press Telegram, I I think the question that we must ask always is, you know, how does this benefit the many, you know, at all levels? You know, the third party vendors. I mean, in the alliance discussions, uh you know, sometimes the what was lost in the discussion in terms of the media was the impact on third-party vendors. And we have to really have a concrete understanding of that because again, these are people's livelihoods that you're affecting. So when I view in terms of what's uh the benefit to the many, I think these decisions in terms of how we move containerized cargo and the economic benefits really have to filter down from not only the the top-level uh BCOs, carriers, but also the men and women who work in the supply chain. And I think even in today's world, that's probably the biggest challenge right now that we have in light of the oncoming technology that we're seeing in the fifth industrial revolution, that is the implementation of technology to create more efficiency. And at the same time, how are we guarded in terms of protecting the workforce? That probably is going to be the big challenge for all sectors in the industry going forward.

SPEAKER_01: 36:24

Yeah, I think that's right. And I think that that's also, you know, we have to find ways of challenging, of, of solving some of these challenges with congestion and identifying some of those pain points. But then also, how do we find ways for, you know, it's obviously not robots replacing people. That's not where we want to go. But how can we find things that help elevate, augment, you know, amplify, support, you know, the perhaps the same way that that some of the technologies that make our everyday lives a little easier, right? I mean, I I prefer having a blender than I do, you know, mashing things up by hand. But but I I don't feel uh there's there's ways of balancing, and it's a very tender balance, and it's something that we really have to keep in mind and not run too fast toward, but do so kind of in a very, in a very measured way. I want to go back to this 2015 congestion report. This was something that at the time it was released, I think that it certainly caught its way into the overall supply chain conversation. But really, where I found it to be most helpful was when 2020 hit. So five years prior, you identified, and really six years prior, right? Because it was 2014 that we kind of started getting to work on this, you identified some very key things happening in the industry, these trends that you were seeing, these pain points and problems that you had seen on the West Coast, but then through your your kind of exploration of all ports in your chairmanship role of of what was what was happening across the country. And so this report is kind of a it, you know, unfortunately, it became the playbook of of 2020. And all the things that we saw start breaking down were things that had been identified in this report. Was it your your Long Beach experience that gave you obviously that very direct operational insight into the trends you were seeing? And then you were, they were therefore able to recognize them quicker at once you got to the federal level? Or or talk to me a little bit about where the idea for this congestion report came in. It was it was something that was lingering, but it wasn't really forefront until you brought it into this report.

SPEAKER_00: 38:30

Well, first of all, Laura, there was another that that's another instance where there was some debate within the FMC commission as to whether we engage in a congestion study or pursue this endeavor. I felt strongly that we should. If you go back and look at our mission statement, the FMC, the mission statement is fostering fair, efficient movement of containerized waterborne cargo and also being concerned about the cost effectiveness or the impact of those costs to uh to the shareholders or the stakeholders, better said. So how can you not address an issue of congestion? Because we do know one thing. When we do have congestion, there is cost that are increased ultimately, not only to stakeholders but to the consumer when goods don't flow in an efficient manner. So with that, we address a number of issues that we incorporate in that report after listening to testimony from various stakeholders or sectors in the American industry. And like you said, many of those issues surfaced in 2020. We were again discussing you know how do you how do we address issues, excuse me, involving chassis, operational hours, transloading, all that's involved in again, efficient movement of goods uh through the country. So yeah. It was a very worthwhile experience and I think really brought the FMC into prominence prominence. And as you know, we delivered that report to key committees in Congress. And so that what we saw in 2020 as a result of the COVID-19 supply chain disruption, a lot of those questions really came into play. More specifically, the question about 24-7 mindset of operations. That's still a debate in this sector. But you know, when you look at a gateway like the San Peter Bay complex when that I was familiar with when I went to the FMC, you know, does it make sense for a leading gateway of containerized cargo and cranes aren't moving on a Sunday or they're not moving, you know, particularly hours in the day or excuse me, in the evening, unlike the ports of origin. I mean, I think Lauren, you have come to the uh TPM conference here that uh Long Beach hosts annually the largest maritime uh conference in the country. And for the last couple of years, we've had key executives, you know, one Jeremy Nixon from the OE and Soren Toff from MSc in different years, noting the fact that the the ports of origin are 24-7 and they come to the USA and we're not. So I don't think every gateway has to be 24-7 or expansion of hours, but certainly the most uh significant and largest gateway, we do have to expand our operation hours, and there has been some movement on that. Although I I would admit we're not gonna work 24 hours a day, seven days a week anytime soon. But I think we're we're starting to realize that uh in my first state of the port speech as a as a CEO at Long Beach that I made when I was blessed to re to get this job, I said we need to have an Amazon state of mind. I wasn't promoting a company, but obviously we could all agree that Amazon changed a big dynamic in the in the movement of packages and goods in this country 24-7. I mean, just a few miles away from Long Beach in Ontario, you had the largest uh Amazon warehouse distribution center. Well, actually it's a fulfillment center, 4.7 million square feet of a warehouse. And they aiming to move a million packages a day. So of course you need to think about you know how we expand our hours of operation to continue that efficiency and movement of cargo so that we don't get into a bottleneckslash congestion scenario. And fortunately, here at the St. Peter Bay complex, we haven't been in that scenario in the last couple of years. So going forward again, I want to thank the terminals in this San Peter Bay that uh are really cognizant of what we need to do to kind of have a transformative mode in our hours of operation at our terminals.

SPEAKER_01: 43:10

Well, and and you know, Amazon is a fantastic example, right? Because they started out as just a bookstore, you know, just an online bookstore that that built to what they are today by finding the opportunities, by by fixing the problems they saw along the way, and then getting to be the best at it, right? It turns out everybody wants predictability and shipments, two-day turn time. So there's something to be said for that. And I think we're we're moving on the predictability on the cargo movements, but that's also something that the entire industry is continuing to tackle. You're right, TPM is fantastic. I call it ocean shipping nerd camp. It was I have the best I always do. And then this past year, we had the the president's speech, the State of the Union, I think it was what it was, during the TPM. So here I was, you know, you spend all day in in meetings or in conversations or panels, and then you go to these after events. And I think I was watching that speech at 1 a.m. after everything gets closed up because I missed it because I was at dinner during that. But there were some really wild things happening, and we were able to discuss them with the highest levels of leadership all in one space. It was it was a fantastic TPM for that reason. So I wanted to say uh before we close up the FMC book, do you remember when you were asked to be chairman? What was that like? What you had it was you were a fairly new commissioner uh coming into the agency, but what was that experience like where it was all right, we we're thinking that we're gonna put you up for chair? Are you interested? How is this gonna go? And then kind of what was your first day as chairman, right? You were already familiar with the FMC, but what was that like?

SPEAKER_00: 44:49

Just kind of a personal you know, for me that was unexpected. And as you indicated, once I did report to DC uh within a year or shortly thereafter, I I was uh I received a call from the White House, President Obama's council, and they indicated to me that they were gonna propose uh for me to be chairman of the agency. And would I accept that uh that elevation? So I was it was totally unexpected. And of course I said yes, I'd be interested. But it it again, I've been so blessed in my life with the opportunities that had been in front of me. We've already talked in this interview some of those opportunities that really changed my career track. And so yeah, it was a very interesting uh scenario because uh going to DC was a tough decision on my part to do this. And now once I'm there, I'm gonna be considered chairman of the agency, which is Laura, as you know, it's a different dynamic when you're chairman. Uh you you run the agency. And so I had to keep it uh close to to the vest for a while. You know, it was something that the the president indicated that uh he was gonna make an announcement at some point, but didn't want me to share that with anyone until that announcement was made. And as you were are aware, you were there. Once that announcement was made, then I I did go down the hallway and moved into the chairman headquarters or office. And I was very energetic for the agenda that eventually everybody saw that I wanted to really elevate the FMC and have it, you know, have the agency be a a well-recognized player within the mission statement that we have. And I think also it was a time where the FMC didn't have very good ratings in terms of, you know, they had the annual agency of the year and the ratings of agencies that uh employees fill out a survey every year, and the agency at that time was not near the top of the list. And I vowed that within two years we would be the number one agency of the small agency categories, and sure enough, within two years we were. I think that's another accomplishment that uh I certainly am very proud of. But more importantly, like Lauren, the staff I had around me, beginning with my chief of staff, uh Mary Wang, and others, including yourself, made it so easy for us to really uh be proactive. And I think uh I was very touched when Chairman Solas this year at the uh AAPA spring conference referenced that, that uh he mentioned me as a consequential leader and who really changed the E FMC in terms of uh its profile. So I think again, I I I've been very blessed for not only the opportunities, but to have the people around me who were very good at what they did what they did or what they do and with that subject matter expertise. So I I I shared a lot of success with the people around me and executive staff who who were who did the work on this.

SPEAKER_01: 48:10

That's right. I I had almost completely forgotten. You we did go from uh pretty much last in in employee satisfaction, I think is what it was, and we were number one on employee satisfaction within two years of you coming in. That's right. It had gone from, you know, it's a federal job to, and I I almost don't want to say it because I don't want to sound trite, but it went from a federal job to a family. I mean, it really we would have holiday get-togethers, we would have chilly cook-offs, right? We would have all sorts of fun, fun activities where we actually we enjoyed the work and we enjoyed the the the we were focused on a mission. And and I think that you did such a great job. So so thank you for for at least that piece of time and and the trajectory that you put the FMC on. I think that you you really had a lot of great insights there.

SPEAKER_00: 48:59

It's interesting you mentioned family environment because that's what I believe I transferred here at the Port of Long Beach, that family environment, because when I took this job, I also told the workforce that I wanted the uh the Port of Long Beach to be a family, you know, that we work hard, but at the same time, you know, we socialize and have some fun and and show appreciation and gratitude. So I think that's where we're at here at the Port of Long Beach, the same scenario in which I have great staff around me and we're a family, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 49:33

Uh so yeah, I think that And that's a wonderful segue too, because that was one of my that was my next question was so you have all this federal experience, and then you were, I believe, asked to come back to to Port of Long Beach in the CEO role. What were some of the things that you learned that that, you know, kind of you had the harbor commissioner experience, and then you had this commissioner and then FMC chairman role that you then brought back to the port with your kind of newly shined up lens that that you were now seeing the the port in a new light? What were some of those things that carried through with you and and that helped you once you got to back to Long Beach?

SPEAKER_00: 50:11

Well, first of all, I will say at the Poor of Long Beach, my uh the the executive directors who led before me have done a great job at this port in all aspects. So it was a much easier task to say, how do we elevate here at the Poor Long Beach? But having said that, I think one of the things that I brought back from Washington is the importance of the of the political component of your operation, you know, your outreach to legislatures. In our case, Sacramento here in California. And as you know, Lauren, you remember that sign in my office, everything's political. It's still there in my office today. And everything is political, trust me on that. So so with that, I think uh, you know, the you're you're interviewing me in a studio that we started here a few years ago on the 10th floor, is our media studio, and this is something I thought was very important for us to invest in, for us to really try to control the narrative of the poor Long Beach, our engagement not only in terms of the community, but with our stakeholders, our temporal operators, and of course our our elective officials. So that in our community, and I will say that a recent survey taken here of the portal Long Beach really affirmed the fact that the the citizens of Long Beach have very much embraced the port, not only as an economic engine, but as a real player in terms of our community engagement, much different than back in 2003 before we implemented the Greenport policy. No one liked the port because of the congestion on the freeways and the pollution. So I think we've gone a long way here at the Port of Long Beach. And again, credit to my predecessors who also did a great job in in addressing these issues.

SPEAKER_01: 52:01

Yeah, and so uh moving back to back home, basically, right? I mean, you you you certainly moved to DC, but you always had a foot back home. You were you were quick to head back to the West Coast for family events. And and you know, as much as we felt like you were part of the DC world, you probably remained just as much a part of the California, Long Beach, San Pedro Bay conversation. And so it was a natural next step for you. I I felt you you did you were already so well equipped for that role, and then you stepped into it so well with all of the leadership that you had ex kind of shown during the FMC years. And it set you up for the third years, right? These COVID congestion years that we often focused a lot on the on the headlines. But what were some of those quieter decisions or or maybe some some of the things that the public didn't get to see when it really came down to how do I protect the people around here, right? How do I make sure that everybody's safe and accounted for, but also trying to make sure that the throughput was happening. I'm sure there were some very difficult decisions having to be made, but there were some really strategic ways that ports were handling that that very difficult time.

SPEAKER_00: 53:14

Well, I think on on two fronts. Number one, in terms of here regionally, we were very proactive in supplying mass and other medical equipment, so to speak, that we were able to have as a port, even though there was a shortage, unbelievably, uh, during that time. But eventually we did have stock up on masks and gloves, and we distributed to the community and in our workforce and on the in the port complex. We became very proactive. I'm proud to say the port of Long Beach was immediately when the vaccine was available, we provided that free at no cost to the dock workers, and we were very much engaged on that, and and ultimately the seafarers in the seafarer center that we have here in the harbor complex. And and I think with regard to the congestion and the disruption that we had domestically in the supply chain, I think the interesting backroom discussions were the daily calls with the White House envoy, which began with John Picari on appointment from President Biden, and ultimately a meeting where I was at the White House in the Roosevelt room with the president. I think that was memorable. And I think those discussions was a full court press by the White House with the St Peter Bay complex, which included the port of Los Angeles, in terms of how do we address these bottlenecks and disruptions, and how do we engage to not only do it short term but long term. And I think those were very fruitful discussions, and I think it reaffirms the fact that how significant this gateway is, the St. Peter Bay complex, because when we had those issues, where did the White House go to to address overall the national supply chain to the St. Peter Bay complex? So those discussions on a daily basis, phone calls where we had shippers on the call, carriers, Chachi owners, the union members, I think was memorable in terms of a collaborative spirit that we all had to make things better, not only in the national supply chain, but certainly here in the region, the largest container gateway in the country. So I think all that was a very positive experience and the proactivists, particularly of the Port of Long Beach, in leading those discussions.

SPEAKER_01: 55:38

Well, you did a great job. So one last question before we close up. I've so enjoyed our conversation here today. You know, as you as you kind of look back, you've had both federal regulation, port leadership, you've had all these high-level roles across the supply chain. What are some of the things that you hope the industry carries forward, whether it's an approach, a mindset, or maybe just a way of working together? Is there anything that you feel you didn't get done? And what lessons do you hope that the next generation will continue to work on, right? Some things just can't get done. You know, what is the next generation of maritime leaders? What are you looking for? What are you hoping to see?

SPEAKER_00: 56:16

Well, first of all, transformation that continues in two areas. One, operational transformation. I talked about the fact that we need to really explore how we move cargo around the clock, you know, so to speak, have that framework. So that again here at the San Pedro Bay complex, we're in the midst of again moving 20 million TEUs, LA and Lombs together. And we we we cannot miss a beat in terms of moving that cargo. Talking about velocity of cargo as opposed to volatility. Second, digital transformation. I think every port in the country is looking at this. In our particular case, you know, we are we introduced the concept of the supply chain information highway. And Dr. Noel Hatagawa has been a great leader in that endeavor in terms of promoting the supply chain information highway so that we could have some integrated movement of digital information so that we further transparency and visibility in in the supply chain. So those are two areas that we keep we need to keep elevating and moving in terms under the broader classification or title of transformation. And then also the fact that again, one of the things I introduced at our recent management meeting a few months ago was the whole discussion about AI. Yeah, there's there's a lot of debate about that, but I said to the staff, we have two choices. We could be dismissive of this technology and then be behind the eight-ball in a few years, or we can embrace it and see where it fits with the portal on beach. And hopefully, in my view, where it fits is to enhance the skill set of our employees here, not replace them, but enhance the skill set. Because I think I see this as a skill set that's going to be required in the workforce of the future. So the more you know about it, the more that includes your productivity, and of course, the more that puts you in a better posture with regard to opportunities that come later in terms of promotion and other aspects in the workforce.

SPEAKER_01: 58:34

Well, thank you so much. This has been incredible to have this conversation with you. Thank you for your years of service. You've you've led across every level of this industry and you brought steadiness to complex policy, clarity during turbulence, and truly humanity to decisions that affect millions of people around the world. I mean, supply chain affects us all, from longshore workers to shippers to everyday families waiting on goods. So, on behalf of the entire ocean shipping and supply chain world, thank you. Your leadership really has made a difference. And for me personally, I'm grateful that I've had the chance to work with you under your leadership at the FMC and to learn from your approach through the years and now reflect on your career that has meant so much to so many. So I wish you nothing but fulfillment, rest, and joy in this next chapter. But I know you, you will not sit down for long. You'll probably take a few trips in the meantime, and then I'm excited to see where we see you again.

SPEAKER_00: 59:25

I will not uh I will not be in the state of indolent repose, Lauren. So I will say one last thing from the ended on a baseball note. Okay. I will say that during my six years in Washington, uh, my number two team was the Washington Nationals. I will never lose my loyalty to the Dodgers as the number one team, but it was a great experience uh walking to National Stadium. I lived in the Southwest District in Washington, so it was about eight blocks, six or seven blocks from the stadium. So aside from my work there at the FMC, I also continue.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:00

you my my my my love for baseball visiting the washington nationals so uh and i know that was your number one team then also so we shared that experience at the fmc among other things you know the the the events that we had fmc at national stadium those were great events that i remember it was so fun and that's when bryce harper was really on his on his movement toward towards stardom was was from your cheering and the fmc support while he was at the nets well thank you so much lauren thank you very much mario this has been wonderful thank you so much best of luck thank you what an incredible conversation mario really has led across every level of this industry from local governance to national regulation to global regulatory dialogue to port leadership and he's done it with steadiness clarity and a genuine commitment to public service and again since this conversation was reported it's exciting to say the port of Long Beach has announced that Dr. Noel Hasagaba is its incoming CEO. I'm excited to see how he leads this port into the next chapter and I know the industry will be closely watching and supporting him. Mario thank you for taking the time to reflect with me especially at such a meaningful moment in your career. If you like this episode be sure to follow subscribe and leave a review. Want to go deeper on these topics or bring this kind of insight to your team visit the maritimeprofessor.com to explore corporate trainings, tailored briefings and on-demand webinars all designed to make maritime regulations practical and easy to understand. And if your organization needs help navigating the legal or strategic side of ocean shipping regulations, head over to SWAL Strategies. That's where I provide consulting services, regulatory guidance and policy support for clients working in the global ocean shipping space and all across the global ocean shipping supply chain. As always this podcast is for educational purposes only and should not be considered legal advice. If you need an attorney contact an attorney so until next time I'm Lauren Began the maritime professor and you've just listened to By Land and by C. See you next time